Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Shimano also claims this issue is. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? No, you're running the latest EP8. This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. It's kinda frustrating. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. You are not alone. The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. Just kidding! No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. Couldn't agree more. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! it's been quite awhile and still no fix . There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. I was sure it was a motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed sensor on the new wheel. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. Mkay? The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . Didn't think I'd ever see that. Not everyone has the time to grind for an hour up the climb. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Nothing like on an ebike. There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? The Levo SL? We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. -- Wild Bill. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. No, not at all. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Total power isnt quite as brutish as Bosch and Brose, but the real beauty about EP8 is that it retains the smooth and intuitive performance that we loved about the old motor. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. 214 That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying I tried to find out the cause of this. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. But yeah, different people. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. That would be awesome to do laps on. Otherwise I do not care. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Shimano said August was the best. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. Wowzers! Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. The freewheel is still in the (regular) rear hub so when you're not pedaling, nothing in the motor-bottombracket assembly should be moving, isn't it? "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". The motors of electric bikes, such as the Shimano Steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. The current spares situation is shocking, l've been waiting six weeks for a battery lock for my E8000 equipped Kona and have been told "June" is the earliest l can expect to see it. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. February 22, 2021. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. - Range estimation is not reliable. Then theres the BT-8035-L battery, which is a 504Wh battery that shares the same physical dimensions as the 630Wh version. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. Repair and maintenance of Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose eBike motors Repair and maintenance of eBike motors from the following manufacturers: Bosch Active Line, Bosch Active Line Plus, Bosch Cargo Line, Bosch Performance Line and Bosch Performance Line CX For more details on the full range of Bosch motors click here One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. 2. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Too hot to handle even. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. Theres still a whirring noise from the metallic gears inside, and the pitch increases slightly at higher cadences. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. I want to use the Shimano EP8 motor for a small production of solar bikes. By Ralf Hauser Let us know what you find out. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. 3. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell Accurate method for determining your estimated range battery charge becomes critical on some rides '' far you hear... 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