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Throughout the Bible sexual sin including homosexuality are condemned. When criticism comes lazily through gossip and public media it makes all Christians look like tools (angry, thoughtless, disrespectful, impatient people). Love, Garry. The bible is our guide, our toolbox for seeking a closer walk with him. Where do you get that any sex outside your strict standard is disapproved of by God? Lets be more careful that our theology is producing good fruit. Shes just one person. Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. Free Methodist Church disengages from ANC. One isnt exposing anything hidden. We see thru a glass darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only Jesus can remove. Im not arrogant-Im just trying to be obedient. Jesus condemns every expression of sex outside of marriage given what the word porneia means in both Biblical and non-Biblical sources. Youre right, Spencer, in my opinion. My study of the scriptures has helped me come to the conclusion that drinking alcohol is not sin if in moderation. They have also founded the Austin New Church in Austin, Texas along with Legacy Collective, a community foundation aiming to find sustainable housing, prevent child trafficking and provide health care, among other options. All of scripture is God breathed. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. Law and love are often in conflict. But this only provided them with more ammunition and fueled their rightness. The loaded the big guns, and intensified their attack. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? And it is wrong of this couple to teach this. It was put out publicly by the husband I think on their Facebook page that they felt they were led to believe that as long as a homosexual couple are faithful to one another the its fine just like a normal marriage. Forgive. Let them be the fire and one day, there will be nothing left to burn. Brian Austin Green praises Megan Fox & refutes other ex Vanessa's claims. Also, you can say it all you want, but monogamous, consensual, same sex relationships are neither sinful, nor addressed in scripture At. Can core beliefs and clear tenets of faith survive for very long in the same room as life and health and love? According to a source that told the U.S . God allowed polygamy, rape victims being forced to marry their rapists, soldiers being allowed to keep women as spoils or war, brothers marrying sisters. $99.99 + $51.77 shipping. Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. So there is no middle ground here. Samantha's creative work has appeared in theatres, churches, and non-profit spaces. Entire nationsmen, women, and childrenwere slaughtered this way. But we have GRACE. Actually it is addressed in much of scripture. But often we fail to see it when its practiced within our own communities. Lots of folks. You just made me so happy. But dont you see that disagreement doesnt immediately mean hate? If you write a blog to slam her, or design a demeaning meme, or post an essay-style comment on her blog youre not only being hurtful, but also completely ineffective at the very thing you claim to be doing. And theyre not always wrong. I wonder if anyone on here is going to change anyones mind. The Body of Christ should do better than this! It is never correct to say any sin is okay. I couldnt take it any longer and chose to resign. 6406 N I-35 Suite 3100 Austin, TX, 78752. Healthy religion does not indoctrinate, but teaches people to think for themselves; Healthy religion invites us to be humble about what we believe and know; Healthy religion does not invest in negativity; it does not major on what it is against but rather on what it is for; Healthy beliefs stay in tune with reality, never filling in the gaps for what we do not know. The best place to confront false teaching is on Sundays from the pulpit (like in Pauls letters which were meant to be read to a local church) and in personal discussion, where real Q & A dialogue can happen. "Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but. Judging by the comments I see here some of you really, really need it. Loving your neighbor as yourself requires you to have love in your heart in the first place. Yet, the Bible is clear that it was. http://bible.com/114/1co.5.10-13.nkjv. I dont know what it is that some of you have eaten but before commenting about a biblical issue perhaps it would serve you well to actually read the bible, brush up a little. Do you know anyone whos a part of the Churches of Christ? Yes the 2nd chapter of Genesis is poetry. If your deal is to call anyone with differing theological opinions a heretic Im not guessing its something I can change, but as a close friend of Jens I find a lot of this commentary nothing like the Jesus I love and serve alongside Jen. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Because they are against what God says is wrong. 00:38. It seems to be the only one you can quote here. The Hatmakers' congregation, Austin New Church, ultimately transferred from the Free Methodist Church, an evangelical denomination, to the United Methodist Church. Do you believe in predestination? The Gospel is good news but it cuts us all of us to the core. These reflect ACTIONS of FAITH. People forget about Jesus chasing people with a whip. March 22: TP announces a discussion regarding full LGBT inclusion, a series of events where only pro-gay marriage experts and thought leaders like Dr. J. Brownson and Matthew Vines. Uh-oh, it looks like its Jen Hatmakers turn. Your firmly held religious beliefs are personal. The 04 Center is a community space in the truest sense of the word. Sinful mankind, including Gospel-loving movements of the past, have done this time and again. My misgiving with this article is whitewashing false teachers, since the subject is not about how to reach and love on homosexuals, but on how to deal with false teachers. State desire to remain in a tension on the issue, however, no opposing historical views are presented, and most if not all elders holding to traditional views have left ANC since the interview. But my questions remain. And did he lower the behavioral bar re sexual sin or raise it? I so agree with your point about how we handle disagreement in evangelicalism. If you want to stay in the fold, youd best be subordinately silent. I recommend Frank Schaffers books to everyone. IN-PERSON | 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 ONLINE | Facebook or YouTube I'M NEW HERE. In the Dallas, TX area 7 Months ago, the church I founded as a church planter was destroyed from this kind of mentality (I graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary and have pastored for over 20+ years). Thats why you go first alone, then take a witness or two and finally tell the church. I had never really heard of Hatmaker before and then I heard she inclusive of same sex relationships. We all know deep down whats right and whats wrong. We should love every one but never condone sin. Enlarging Life But if I did people like Joel Olsteen would have much shorter careers, and pasters wouldnt be worried about filling pews. Brian Austin Green Praises Megan Fox As He Claps Back At Ex Vanessa Marcil's Coparenting Dig. When you read Romans 1 and 2 together intelligently as one argument, you see that his whole point is that the people who are judging others are the ones in sin. Some express it in healthy ways, some do not. And making comments such as Jesus doesnt speak to homosexuality is, well, a bit simplistic. A church plant in 2008, our church has been nomads in a myriad of locations in the South Austin area. Am I looking at the letters wrong? thanks, Yes, and you should NEVER chase them with a whip. ConcernedMeasuring.Locating Im being more outspoken on this forum, but where I live I am highly criticized for spending most my time with unbelievers and showing them grace and even going into dark places. FMCUSA: the Free Methodist Church- USA, which ANC was affiliated with and financially sustained by since its inception Where is your compassion? But to God? But I know that God is on His throne and showing us the true Kingdom at hand, and it doesnt look like what we thought it would. Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person Approach them directly; raise your concerns respectfully; where appropriate and reasonable, invite a third party into the discussion. I cant imagine how this approach would lead a person down the wrong path. BUILD COMMUNITY. Same-sex couples can be married by American or any other countys law, and thats fine. But we should not bend Gods word with our own to meet the secular world. It is one of my favorite stories. He just hates sin. The Bible says that leaders are held to a stricter standard. (implication: she deserves to be shunned and humiliated). 7:30 pm Primary Purpose Group - Online Only. Seems so simple but we fail so often. Polygamy was still occurring in the New Testament wealthy Jews. Well, thats logical enough. Im so sorry you were harassed and abused. He established the church with his then-wife, Jennifer Lynn Hatmaker, in 2008. What churches could learn from the Pub Choir phenomenon, Breaking Up the Family in the Pursuit of Uniformity, The Micro-Shift That Could Be a Gear Changer for Your Church, Women in Ministry Megalist - Women's Role in the Church Resources, Wise Words Wednesday: The Brutality of Unhealthy Religion | GAP COMMUNITY, Being chiefly concerned with things to avoid, Measuring quantities (of giving/serving/attending etc.). Seems like the apostle Paul was referring to Austin New Church, when he dictated the words of Romans 16:17-18. Dude you are completely crazy and maybe you need to take. Would you kick him out of your church because he doesnt believe that part of the Bible? Yours just ignoring the facts otherwise. At the same time large swaths of the blogosphere blew up with the story, starting with Christian watchblogs and Christian feminist blogs and then spreading to atheist sites. And it IS very clear for sure, just like it is for others. AFS Cinema. I understand the point and process of biblical feedback. He was in the middle of right-wing evangelical churchianity and he skewers it as it justly deserves to be skewered. He told the prostitute to sin no more. It never says anything different then what he just said it does. And I dont know anyone who doesnt love a little Righteous Anger. Its not as simple as that. We should know by now what Gods word is. So where does same-sex marriage fall on this? My only comment is that this pack attack syndrome is alive and well in the Baptist Association of NSW. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. I am so tired of the implication that someone who supports same-sex marriage (or any other cultural buzz issue) is not serious about the Word of God. Great question KB. Most respectful comments disagreeing with her stance are deleted. And if you think Im exaggerating, recall John Pipers incendiary tweet Farewell, Rob Bell, written in response to Bells book Love Wins. I had a woman tell me just today that she prayed and prayed and God did not take away her lesbianism. Jesus spent most of his time hanging out with sinners, as should we. And if they give you an unsatisfactory answer, do you disfellowship them or consider them apostate? Wilshire Baptist Church, a Dallas-area congregation, voted in 2016 to extend full membership to homosexually active people, including leadership ordination and marriage officiation. Oh, THAT sin. Thats down to the individual I guess if they can handle it without wanting to be with that person romantically. Actually S. Tannous what Ben E. Calvert said is VERY biblical. Haters will be haters. Ah, yes. The law is very important to them as a way to honor God, but their rabbis have debated points of the law for centuries, and they dont live in a world where the debater who turns out to be wrong has thereby denied the whole of his faith, like you seem to think Christians do. so I guess that wouldnt be considered a sin. This isnt great, Mike, and soooo important. Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . And in my opinion, if youre born gay, theres no greater sin than lying to yourself, pretending to be straight and failing your partner in marriage because you cannot TRULY be bonded to them. Im convinced that Paul was the first hippie and Jesus was a hardliner who called people to even higher standards than the Law of Moses. Pretty much the same thing in Matthew. Some tens of thousands of believers were martyred in 2016 and Jen Hatmaker is complaining about internet trolls and theological criticism. Ive been reading it for many, many years. Knowing how to respect and honour others is quickly fading from the memories of Western Christians, who live in small, disconnected bubbles of thought, belief, and practice and seem to feel ok with that. I cant speak for all of Jens critics, but yes, a person with a platform that reaches millions of souls is important and it matters that they are presenting the right Gospel without wavering, and naturally people, myself, included, believe and want this Gospel to be clearly proclaimed no matter the cost. Of course, most us common folk dont have Jens email [or Rob Bells, or others], but I appreciate the way you make yourself accessible via social media. This is a gospel issue. And in a case where these well-known teachers, who are influencers of millions of the church, appear to err in their teaching, is it appropriate for those familiar with them to call them to repentance publicly? But yes, darn it, we really do need a theology of sexuality. But the actual Gospel is this: That even while were sinners, Christ died for us! Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person. By the way, Mathew 19:12 isnt referring to sexual orientation other than w/regards to the one reference about one having been deformed (for lack of a better word) at birth and therefore not able to complete his duties (so to say) in marriage but of course there were those in that time who were castrated and then the other reference meaning those who can lead a chaste life not because you sin if you decide to marry but those who are born with an inclination to be able to lead a chaste life and can be more centered in devoting ones life to Christ without the responsibilities of marriage. It will open us up to the new: while religion continues to be a profoundly important vehicle for personal and community identity it also embraces a humility borne of the awareness that our knowledge is partial we see through a glass only darkly. After three years of intensive study, reading the Bible in its original languages, going deep into study with people of Faith on all sides of the issue.I came to see that the Bible didnt always say what I thought it did (or wanted it to). And trust that if we surrender to his ways and obeys him he will show us the best life, full of the great things like peace and joy and fellowship with the creator of the universe. A better idea is to study Mt 5-7 with a wary eye for Judaizers early edits, then read the rest as history and commentary. Is one sin worse than another? But with grace and love and patience and forbearance and all the fruit of the spirit all is the arsenal of the believer. I know that I was matching hyperbole with hyperbole. I was beginning to thing that all Christians were self-appointed judges. JM: Jason Morriss, primary teaching pastor and elder at ANC, employed by the Free Methodist Church to serve at ANC since 2013, previously of Joel Osteens Lakewood Church in Houston Im out of the loop, but it seems to me that the comments are illustrating the point of the blog. Theres no mention of him using it to strike any animal, let alone human. Are we quenching the Spirit with a desire to be right or with a desire to be liked by culture? So if I am being loving, I am accepting and embracing all kinds of heresies and now truth is blasphemed. Or are you making the point that its ok to be harsh because of Jesus example at the temple? However, most of my Presbyterian friends dont believe or practice this. If so, how will you justify that to him? The festival welcomes and encourages artists from any discipline to join us in a week-long celebration of student-led performance. So I ask, is not healthy religion a figment of the imagination? Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. People read Frank Schaffer! There was ample time before their opinions were made public to meet with mentors and leaders to understand that what they say may not be well received. I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. It is sad. Selena Gomez and Hailey Bieber drama: A complete timeline of their feud This story has been shared 20,804 times. Stories of Jesus sharing love, community, and personal connection (even when he rebuked) fill the rest of the Gospels. Self justification can take many forms. Id rather be wrong in affirming my friends who are LGBT than have to attend their funerals because they killed themselves due to the hateful type of rhetoric youve put out here. 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