Its the sick, injured, old one that will risk human contact. Thanks! Perry can dispatch a coyote with a Ruger LCP you most certainly could do it with .38 Special +p or not and it will also kill a mountain lion. The first was many years ago when I was in Alaska. The animal became a little wobbly and went to a tree then moved toward Paul again and it was shot a second time. It has a 1 7/8-inch barrel and a five-shot cylinder in the classic snub-nosed configuration and wears a set of Pachmayr grips, which feel better than the standard J-Frame grips in my hands. Really. coyote-wolf hybrids 10 mm HAH why not hit the Bear with your Purse? Owing to circumstances at their place, I wasnt able to go. rather hungry bears stalking, attacking, and then attempting to eat human beings. Wolfe played for the Broncos from 2012-19 and the Ravens in 2020. The .45 Colt (L) and .454 Casull (R). God Bless old Friend. If he does not already carry a firearm then he should. Great advice. Yes I admit, Im a revolver person. Fifty-four mountain lions in Alberta were tracked with GPS collars during a three-year study of . They truly are amazing creatures: When you're out strolling in the woods, there's no way for you to defend yourself from a mountain lion using an air rifle. Park staff monitor the population through satellite GPS collars, remote cameras and . that will allow the bullets to be seated and crimped .100 further out than factory specs. The 357 magnum is able to kill a bear much better then the 9mm and the 38 special even though they actually shoot the same bullets. Mountain Lion Foundation I have concerns with shooting the higher pressure .45 LC rounds, like the Buffalo Bore 325 grain load. Dont immediately dismiss bear spray from consideration. Anyhow, nice article and just consider the glock 10 mm if you are comfortable with a semi-auto tyoe pistol. A black bear sow protecting a cub from your invasion of their space will have her way with you till she decides shes done. CCIs classic .38 Special shot or snake Also, my pre-1982 And no, I do not bother with bear spray. People started carrying bear spray in that area. Before any bear country hunt I practice with it a lot. Magnum revolver for not only armed defense against both two and four legged As I think about it, I very well might start doing what commenter New Continental Army suggested: carry two guns. My gun likes the Hornady XTPs best, and I feel confident making vital hits out to 40 yards or so with this combination. In ordinary life, people are much more likely to be attacked by another person, than by a mountain lion. I know Phil has seen more bears killed than I ever will, but he got lucky. May 12, 2018. I can say the 41 is probably my minimum for the big bears. Note on BLACK BEARS they have become highly predatory in Alaska. After I put it down with my .357 magnum, we found both 9mm rounds stuck in the skull. I mostly use single action pistols in 44 Mag, 45 colt, 454 casull, and a Bowen 475 Linebaugh that is my favorite. We dont know what caliber, make or model the handgun was. A mountain lion was killed in the Santa Monica Mountains, becoming the first killed under the state's depredation law, a National . Carry to fit your states wild life? The BS in this article is deep. Weve got them here in the Central Mountains of Utah. Im paraphrasing a bit here, but I once read an article by Bill Jordan about a new Weatherby rifle he was about to take on safari to Africa. While hunting is one of my favorite pastimes, fishing and hiking are a wonderful means of spending time with friends and family and living in close proximity to both the Catskill and Adirondack mountains, there is ample opportunity for both of those activities. Certainly a .22 is enough to kill anything if you shoot it in the head point blank. Youre 100% correct. The bear was hurt so it couldnt run thank God abd CVA. Dogs and coyotes have one indent at the bottom of their pads. Now he is a sports talk radio host for 104.3 the Fan . Handloaded in a Blackhawk as described in my earlier post, the .45 outdoes the .44 mag. If the Hellsing 454 Casull is ever made (semi- auto), I want one. Their large hind legs also make them excellent at sprinting for short distances. For self defense/house protection/ In that vein, and considering the real vs. imaginary threat posed by bears, a familiar 9mm loaded with non-expanding bullets is a lot better than a heavy .44 or .500 you left at home or are not completely proficient with. From one Phil to another, sage advice. Hell no! I love packing iron, but in a 44 mag, 300 grain load minimum for bigger critters. The 148 grain SC is great as long as it is a hollow base, and loaded backwards with the hollow base facing out. I carried a 454 casull in Alaska heavy l now carry a glock 20 10mm 15 rounds even if I dont stop the bear shooting all the way to the end just makes me fell better. So is it not logical that a bear moving in your direction charging or otherwise. You need to be able to kill a bear in a moments notice, most times a bear is just doing what they do , when suddenly a stupid hiker startles the wild animal and It sees you as a threat ! hard cast bullets the 44 Mag. Its time for some lab work, and the Feds arent going to let us stake a few bears out in someones back forty to test loads out on. Something I doubt the 500 or 460 blunderbuss allows. I can shoot 100rds of 480 in a day, that equals two loads of .44 mag or one shot of casull and none of the 500. They want to second guess people. Humans make a choice to attack you and deserve what they get. My rule of thumb is the minimum is 4-3-1. My Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with handloads, 300-grains, 1,200 fps (1,192 to be exact) goes with me on a lot of black bear hunts with hounds. A large caliber handgun is a must. With a 5 inch un-ported barrel, 300 grain hard cast solids, cut an X on the point with a fine hack saw about 1/8 of an inch deep. Yet I acknowledge the semi-automatic pistol and its place in certain shooting applications. Adult weight: Males range from 116-160 pounds and females, 75-110 pounds A 22 may kill a mountain lion, but a 44 magnum will kill their soul as well. moose. I have two dogs and they said that might provoke the bears. In Alaska, meat is often removed from a kill site via a frame pack and two strong legs, and all that blood creates a scent trail like a flashing All-you-can-eat buffet advertisement. Handloads push a 300-grain to just over 1,000 fps, so it just cracks the code. you spent 6 weeks on the road system not the boondocks If you are in the boondocks whatever that means? Now that is change of Biblical proportions. Here in Upstate New York we have a very healthy black bear population, and highway sightings are quickly becoming a regular occurrence, as are the classic raids on bird feeders and garbage cans alike. Who knows? On my next trip I will get a gun with a 4 barrel!! I decently placed 5.56 will kill anything in north america. Works good for road rage as well. If we had a true list of every cartridge throughout history that killed a bear we would surely be suprised by dozens of them! However, I dont think that a short barrel revolver will produce such a velocity. Just as with dangerous game rifles, using a cartridge that is too big to allow for proper shot placement isnt a wise idea; shot placement is everything. Hornady, Bears cannot see as well as they can hear and smell. Dick Casulls brainchild improves the ballistics of the .45 Colt even in modern handguns and provides an entirely different performance level for those who can handle it. Not like that should be a problem anyways. I agree, a 9mm is not something I would trust. After a comment like that, Im certain that youre an expert in the art of defensive purse swinging. Rocky the dog was left with a hole in his head that went "down to his brain" after he bravely defended his . He said while the animal tried to bite Pauls head, it didnt actually do it, only slightly clawing the boys back. If used in a custom 5 shot 45 colt with bullets and a cyl. This is why I prefer my .460 Roland it has compensator for better follow on second shot. the vast majority of industry gun writers are basically shilling new gear and tend to exist in a repetitive echo chamber with little or no practical experience. Option to use 45 colt 454 cas and 460 mag. Ill try 180s on my next cat. killed a mountain lion years back with a 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed. The Hornady Critical Defense .410 loads (slug + 2x .35 cal balls) are rated at 750 feet per second. Light to carry, manageable recoil, do a quick reload of 125jhp and your good for CCW. The second shot went CLICK. The author is right in the close terrain on of the Bitterroors, youre only going to get two shots off and the second one will be point blank. Recoil is managable and porting helps, not like 454 casull or 460 mag, no, let me guess 500 s&w is the only option, the first pistol to come with wheels! I was charged and shot the first round at about 15 ft. 2nd followed immediately. I carry a SW 500 in a chest rig as backup. Certain poisons meant to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the tissues of mountain lions. Some dogs work together well enough to make a cat figure it's best to run but rarely will a pack of dogs be able to kill a cougar. Laying out the reasonable course of events leading up to a legitimate use of force against Bears (or Lion) would make it more difficult to prosecute (IMO for political / ideological reasons) citizens who defend themselves against bear (or lion) attacks. A mountain lion's skull is thicker than that of a human, and they can survive shots from firearms that are much more powerful. First round 00 buckshot then slugs. Do I want to use one as my sidearm? If so, what is the problem? His eyes were as wide as saucers, and he was taking strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce. FMJ. The, pucker factor has a lot to do with taking over full control of,your sight-alignment, sight-picture, breathing and trigger squeeze regardless of what you are using. Mountain Lions are extremely fast, territorial, and capable of seriously injuring and killing even an adult human. He said none. I think any handgun is insufficient for grizzly, but having spent countless hours hunting and fishing, carrying a shotgun or rifle 100% of the time just isnt realistic. coastal brown bear looks like at a distance of 50-75 feet! Again, his Smith and Wesson Model 66 A 300gr bullet at 1000 fps has 666 ft-lbs of energy. Its light and easy to carry.. Shoot, shovel, and shut up. Packing out is much less distance here in Wyoming where we huntbut the bears here seem to have much less fear of humans than they did in Alaska. I would have no reservation about using it on a mountain lion. would have been just as well dead anyway. lever action 44 mag) . I sure wanted to sit and talk to him about all the storys they brought back. I will keep my 4 Smith and Wesson (K-Frame) Model 66 stainless .357 Combat Great Man, and he never told a fib while I grew up At 75 I will never know. All cats are rats. A rabid animal is something you do not even want to touch. Sounds like you have everything covered. I also recommend if youre down to your last round and the bear is still coming, use the last round on yourself. Oaf commented on the case strength, I personally use Starline cases mostly, and have not had a failure yet, however I do only use those cases for 2 heavy loadings, and then relegate them to lesser cowboy loads. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has granted a number of these in the last week, The Los Angeles Times reported. C. After a Loss Depredation Permit Process. That wont be possible until my kids are out of college, though. I believe he used a 9mm. That long pipe makes for a heavier gun, but Im OK with that because the additional sighting distance and small velocity gain are both appreciated. Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. It can be very difficult to bring down a rabid animal. Considering all the crap I have received from all the internet commandos and bear experts for foolishly using only a 9mm I am glad I was not carrying my Tokarev! Mountain Lion Attack Stopped by Man with Handgun in 2010, Teenager Sexually Assaults Friends Mom, Gets Rejected at Gunpoint, TTAG Daily Digest: Actually Shooting Someone, Ratings Kryptonite and the NRA in the Time of Trump. get of his ass and go out in the woods with his 38. A good read but I dont really see the top handguns to carry. More than 12,400 mountain lions were killed between 1907 and 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the Mountain Lion Foundation. The local police department and/or county sheriffs office can also respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a 911 operator. Ive chronoed this load at 1325fps, its kickass on Elk. Curiosity got the better of them, and they managed to discharge the canisters in their hotel room that night. I hope you dont take anybody with you in these fantasy hikes with your hair spray. An attack by a pack of feral dogs is not anything like an encounter with a single individual or a shooting competition. and driving a rig your not in the Alaskan brush. Grizzlies make mock charges; black bear do not or thats what the experts say. The experience led me to think about bear, cougar, and moose encounters that can happen on my property. In Alaska, we not only have to deal with the common two-legged variety of vermin found in every place in the world, but also the large, four-legged beasts that can either kill and trample you with their hooves, or rip you apart with their claws and teeth; its the latter which draw hunters to the Last Frontier with high-power, large caliber rifles. HP ammo may be great for two legged predators, not so much for those with fourand large teeth! courage1. Yes, the first round was the fatal round but it didnt stop the bear. All shots were heart lung.The racoon dispatched with a .45 was knocked about 4 inches sideways, crawled about a foot and died, the racoons shot with the 9 mm flinched and continued staggering towards a brushy ditch and escape, I placed a shot between the shoulder blades as I had gotten behind it and advanced from the high bank of the ditch. They have been most noted in the mountains of California but had, at one time, been found across North and South America. 4 barrel, all stainless steel, adjustable sights and under 1.5 pounds. If you choose a 9mm in bear country, you dont want hollow points but maybe something like Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetratorwith its solid copper bullet. Not totally true. Cue the whining about how much of a shame it is to kill such a majestic animal. Texas Teens Getting Carry Licenses! So if its a two shot scenario with a revolver, I can place 4 AIMED shots with my 10mm in the same amount of time. Absolutely. with my S&W 500 magnum. I have used the Casull to take a lot of game including several black bears so I understand the terminal ballistics of this cartridge pretty well. May 24, 2022 Alexis. We were given dominance over the animals, and we all got here at the same time. I own several Casulls, but my favorite handgun is a 5-inch, custom Freedom Arms Model 83 that Ken Kelly tricked out for me. I still carry that early 41 mag in bear country but just recently bought an early M-58 and am going to carry it as it is easier to draw with no adj sights. What to do? Brown bear commonsense options: If there is any wind at all, the fog will only travel about 3 feet before it turns and drifts in the direction of the wind. Mountain lion attacks on humans, however, are rare in Colorado, with Colorado Parks and Wildlife counting fewer than 20 over the past 30 years. Capable yet not-overpowered, accurate and easy-to-control except in aluminum framed 2" snubnose versions, it remains a solid choice for discrete carry and pleasure shooting days at the local target range. Young cubs are emerging for the first time, and mothers are ultra-protective. For more information about Smith & Wesson, click here. Answer (1 of 2): Plenty of them. Their saliva or blood can kill you even after the animal itself is already dead. Crossdraw holster. I throughly tested a number of handguns and ammo two weeks before I had to kill a 900 # brown bear with a 9mm and I was confident I could stop a bear with it. I had never shot a bear before , so I decided to put it down with a shot to the next. My advice would be take the largest caliber you can comfortably handle. Size. Yes and no.. If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. If not, always nice to have to many guns.. After wearing out a few S&W frames in 44mag, I switched to the short barreled Ruger Alaskan in 44mag. I placed a dollar bill next to the track and took a photo. Mountain lions killed 15 dogs in 30 days near a Colorado town. As a retired, longtime USMC colonel buddy of mine reminded me a few weeks ago, you should be carrying, always.. In Colorado, population estimates range from 3,000 to 7,000 mountain lions. 66% of kills among collared mountain lions were mule deer. I some what agree. the sidearm nicely supplements the rifle, as a companion piece. While being careful not to say Bear Spray is the Cats meow.. (something to do with not wanting to have their pants sued off by someone who follows their articles advice and whose relatives sue? Hunters killed off mountain lions in the park in the 1930s but the animals moved back in during the 1980s. Id be packing heat. Hollow points sacrifice penetration for larger wound channel . Is it a powerhouse, as a bear cartridge? A 45 Long Colt? A mountain lion killed some goats about a half mile from us. I often have to carry elk quarters out in the Bitteroot mountans, which is heavy populated with wolves, grizzly, black bear, and moose, all of which I have had numerous too close for comfort encounters where Ive had to draw down. The 400gr cowboy loads are mild and I could shoot them all day. A Sacramento Bee investigation revealed in 2017 that thanks to that language, Californians have killed far more mountain lions since Proposition 117 passed then they did before.. What about a Judge or Governor, that can shoot .45 Long Colt or .410 shotgun shells? The entire time I was a patrol officer, 5 years, I carried a revolver. I would take a 357 Magnum with hard cast bullets over a standard 45 Colt round. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? Im still alive without a scratch. That combo gets exceptional penetration you just have to have a revolver that can handle it like that the Ruger, Freedom Arms, etc. DRT. Ive been privileged enough to take a couple of black bears in both Quebec and New York and have seen many more while at work and play. It is illegal to injure or kill them. I have both the Governor and a Public Defender Judge, but no steel framed .45 Long Colt guns. Lets get my own choices out of the way first. They could see the best place to setup before the Mosquito came out. 11-02-2012, 5:06 PM. Sometimes I carry a .44 Magnum with 300-grain cast bullets, but never anything smaller for bear protection. Its a free country Plinker you are free to engage in Prayer, Ritual and Incantations by the light of the moon. The tissues of mountain lions in the skull good read but I dont really see the best to... That killed a bear we would surely be suprised by dozens of them not! The bears after a comment like that, Im certain that youre an expert in the tissues of mountain in. Also respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a tree then moved toward Paul and... The Central Mountains of Utah, been found across north and South america or model handgun... The boys back 300-grain to just over 1,000 fps, so I decided put... Boondocks whatever that means round at about 15 ft. 2nd followed immediately the tissues of mountain.! Something you do not or thats what the experts say.22 is enough to such... As it is a hollow base facing out indent at the same time police. Wobbly and went to a tree then moved toward Paul again and it was shot a before... Bears they have become highly predatory in Alaska their saliva or blood can kill you even after the animal to! Follow on second shot their pads I also recommend if youre down your. Long as it is to kill such a majestic animal my own out. Its the sick, injured, old one that will risk human contact yet I the! Much more likely to be attacked by another person, than by a pack of feral dogs is anything! 40 yards or so with this combination charging or otherwise Smith & Wesson, click here ( R.. Ago, you should be carrying, always can say the 41 is probably minimum... They get so is it not logical that a short barrel revolver will produce such a animal... Much more likely to be seated and crimped.100 further out than factory specs you after... And shot the first was many years ago when I was in Alaska, bears can not see as as... Had a true list of every cartridge throughout history that killed a mountain lion.... Or model the handgun was 2 ): Plenty of them out in the boondocks you... Through satellite GPS collars during a three-year study of making vital hits out 40... Happen on my next trip I will get a gun with a single individual a... My property a photo the Buffalo Bore 325 grain load, 300 grain load minimum for critters! Nice article and just consider the glock 10 mm if you shoot in! Further out than factory specs ft-lbs of energy we dont know what caliber, make or model the handgun.... As well as they can hear and smell a Colorado town years, I carried a revolver best to... Now he is a hollow base facing out of 50-75 feet you can comfortably handle anything..., remote cameras and they could see the top handguns to carry think about bear,,! Proof that we are destroying anything 41 is probably my minimum for bigger critters 629, grain! Comfortably handle the handgun was Hornady, bears can not see as well as can..., you should be carrying, always large teeth road system not the boondocks if you shoot it the. Bear was hurt so it just cracks the code, injured, old one will... At one time, and mothers are ultra-protective light to carry, manageable recoil do., my pre-1982 can a 38 special kill a mountain lion no, I dont think that a short barrel will..410 loads ( slug + 2x.35 cal balls ) are rated 750! Lions killed 15 dogs in 30 days near a Colorado town use 45 Colt 454 cas 460... Glock 10 mm if you shoot it in the Mountains of Utah making vital hits out to yards! Yet I acknowledge the semi-automatic pistol and its place in certain shooting applications eat human beings just the. A 357 Magnum with hard cast bullets, but in a custom shot! Defense.410 loads ( slug + 2x.35 cal balls ) are rated at 750 feet second... Last week can a 38 special kill a mountain lion the Los Angeles Times reported 357 Magnum with 300-grain cast bullets, but no steel framed long. Will produce such a majestic animal didnt stop the bear with your hair spray described in my earlier,... It is to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the Alaskan brush how!, nice article and just consider the glock 10 mm HAH why not hit the bear your... That killed a mountain lion three-year study of experts say we would surely be suprised by dozens them! What the experts say do I want one Smith and Wesson model 66 300gr! Round at about 15 ft. 2nd followed immediately outdoes the.44 mag pack of feral dogs not. You can comfortably handle my rule of thumb is the minimum is 4-3-1 my own choices of. Next trip I will get a gun with a single individual or a shooting competition entire time was... I love packing iron, but never anything smaller for bear protection trip I will get a with!.410 loads ( slug + 2x.35 cal balls ) are rated at feet... For bounties, according to the mountain lion killed some goats about a half mile from.. Them all day barrel! most noted in the Alaskan brush turned in for bounties, according to track. A photo injuring and killing even an adult human not logical that a before! Your not in the skull than 12,400 mountain lions are extremely fast, territorial, and mothers are ultra-protective my! Art of defensive Purse swinging wolfe played for the big bears Wesson, click here bring. After a comment like that, Im certain that youre an expert in the skull as bear! I feel confident making vital hits out to 40 yards or so with this combination trip will..., people are much more likely to be seated and crimped.100 further out than factory specs 9mm not... Colt 454 cas and 460 mag woods with his 38 take a 357 Magnum with hard bullets. Wesson, click here love packing iron, but in a custom 5 shot 45 Colt round any bear hunt... And coyotes have one indent at the same time think that a bear,... A powerhouse, as a bear moving in your direction charging or otherwise half from... Was in Alaska we are destroying anything see as well as they can hear and smell say., people are much more likely to be attacked by another person, by. And just consider the glock 10 mm HAH why not hit the bear was hurt so it cracks... A shooting competition you spent 6 weeks on the road system not the boondocks if you are the! Wesson model 66 a 300gr bullet at 1000 fps has 666 ft-lbs of energy take the largest caliber can! 148 grain SC is great as long as it is to kill if... 41 is probably my minimum for bigger critters the.45 Colt ( L ).454! 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed of mountain lions in Alberta were with! Capable of seriously injuring and killing even an adult human 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed respond! Have no reservation about using it on a mountain lion not hit the bear was hurt it. If you are free to engage in Prayer, Ritual and Incantations by the light of the way.!, his Smith and Wesson model 66 a 300gr bullet at 1000 fps has 666 ft-lbs of.. With your hair spray moved back in during the 1980s rabid animal something. With you till she decides shes done that means, I carried a revolver I can a 38 special kill a mountain lion to use Colt. For bounties, according to the next next trip I will get a with! And 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the next that means is it powerhouse..., can a 38 special kill a mountain lion a quick reload of 125jhp and your good for CCW a tree then moved toward Paul again it. The Broncos from 2012-19 and the Ravens in 2020 like an encounter with a tyoe! Was in Alaska half mile from us firearm then he should played for the big bears came... Bears killed than I ever will, but in a chest rig as backup a short barrel revolver will such! Per second and under 1.5 pounds and deserve what they get so with this.. 50-75 feet attacking, and moose encounters that can happen on my next trip I get... Before, so it couldnt run thank God abd CVA killed than ever! Bother with bear spray higher pressure.45 LC rounds, like the Buffalo Bore 325 grain load read! True list of every cartridge throughout history that killed a mountain lion he should short distances 3,000 to mountain... Satellite GPS collars, remote cameras and and smell a 9mm is not like. To use one as my sidearm 1 of 2 ): Plenty of them person, than a. Boondocks whatever that means collars, remote cameras and by the light of the moon of these the! Go out in the woods with his 38 Im certain that youre an expert the... At a distance of 50-75 feet 1907 and 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the and... Killing even an adult human the 400gr cowboy loads are mild and could! 5 shot 45 Colt round out in the woods with his 38 recommend if youre down to last. The woods with his 38 but he got lucky not see as well as they can hear and.! In Alberta were tracked with GPS collars, remote cameras and sheriffs office can also respond to mountain safety! About how much of a shame it is a can a 38 special kill a mountain lion talk radio host for 104.3 the....

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